Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 2 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1049



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Foundation of the Traveller News Service
Re: Foundation of the Traveller News Service
V&V on sale on eBay...
Re: Testing the Waters
Re: GT Armor - Cheaper Merchants, Faster Combat Craft
Re: Lost Keith Supplements "refund"
Re: Foundation of the Traveller News Service
Re: Lost Keith Supplements "refund"
Re: BITS question
Re: I'm back....
Re: FW: Honor Harrington Books
Re: tank:antitank arms race
Re: tank:antitank arms race
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1047
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1048
Re: New Picture
[none]
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1048
Re: streamlining
RE: New Picture
[none]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:27:47 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: Re: Foundation of the Traveller News Service

> From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>

> > From: Keith Johnson 
> > Heck, is the TNS related to the Traveller's Aid Society, and when was TAS
> > founded?  TAS is referenced my copy of Milieu 0, but there are no dates
> > involved.
> 
> According to the old TNS column in JTAS, the TNS is a service provided by
> the TAS.
> 
> I'm not aware of any dates if they're not in Milieu 0.
> 
> If the TAS was around in the early days of the Imperium, I guess we could
> say the TNS was around then too, although that doesn't necessarily follow.

From the depths of my memory I seem to recall that the TAS started in 
either -38 or 38.  But it was within Cleon's lifetime, or 
thereabouts, so it was possible as a fringe benefit upon retirement, 
etc.  I think I got that tidbit from the Milieu 0 rulebook in T4.  
Can someone who has it handy check it out for us?

Thanks,
Jason

=============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us
==============================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:07:32 -0400
From: "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net>
Subject: Re: Foundation of the Traveller News Service

There is a reference on page 39 of the M0 book about TAS activities in the
"early years".  The item is dated 145-0008 and is talking about the past.
TAS must predate the 3I according to that.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The TRAVELLER Domain
http://www.downport.com
Colin Michael, Webslinger

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Kemp <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
> >From the depths of my memory I seem to recall that the TAS started in
> either -38 or 38.  But it was within Cleon's lifetime, or
> thereabouts, so it was possible as a fringe benefit upon retirement,
> etc.  I think I got that tidbit from the Milieu 0 rulebook in T4.
> Can someone who has it handy check it out for us?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:56:58 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us>
Subject: V&V on sale on eBay...

Hi, Guys,

Last few hours of a auction on DGP's V&V module on eBay.  The auction 
is Item #154229030, and the price is pretty low right now, $11, I 
think.  Thought you might be interested.  Ends in about two hours.

Enjoy,
Jason



=============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375

Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us
==============================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:01:27 -0500
From: Eris reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Testing the Waters

Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:
> 
> >> As I'm also sending this message to the TML I should warn you that it is a
> >> TNE game and Virus will be making a special guest appearance along with Cher
> >> and Gillian Anderson.
> >
> > Virus, I can deal with.  Gillian Anderson, okay.  But _Cher_?!?  :-P
> 
> Hey, I /like/ Cher! Now Virus still bothers me...

You sure Cher *isn't* a Virus? <g>  And besides Virus is *supposed* to
bother you...oh, not that way? Okay. <weg>

Seriously, I would have preferred a different solution than Virus, but
can suspend disbelief far enough to swallow it...if I have too.

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:30:35 -0500
From: Eris reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: GT Armor - Cheaper Merchants, Faster Combat Craft

"Joseph R. Dietrich" wrote:
 
> >I'm not gay but I am sure getting tired of the xenophobic attitude in the
> >U.S. to things that aren't supported by the 'main' portion of the
> >population.
 
> Alright, no talk of our sexuality on this Traveller list. You know it's one
> of the seven deadly Traveller sins (among near-c rocks, piracy, jump
> physics, etc.).
 
> Although I think I'm going to open every letter I write from now on with
> "I'm not gay but ..." (Sorry Jory, I'm not picking on you, it just struck
> me as a funny thing to write ;-)).

Okay, what was the Sienfeld gag, "I'm not gay...not that there's
anything wrong with that." <g>

I lost the Traveller connection...so, back to our program. I just want
to say I'm not a Gurps gearhead...not that there's anything wrong with
that...<weg>

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:35:40 -0500
From: Eris reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Lost Keith Supplements "refund"

Sword Worlder wrote:
> 
> > And for the few folks who have written asking for refunds - no can do. The
> > money is already spent - either on paying Marc and Andrew or on material.
> > You'll get your copies and what you do with 'em is up to you. Before I get
> > flamed off-line again from persons who will remain nameless renewed with
> > threats of lawsuits to shut down 'Cargonaut Press' and take all its assets
> [snippage]
> 
> I am willing to make a "refund" for someone who got in on the full meal
> deal.  If you are no longer interested in waiting for your order, let me
> know and we'll make arrangements to swap my name for yours on the waiting
> list.  I'll reimburse full price ($100) for one set.  Let me know ;-)

You'll have to pry mine out of my cold, dead
hands...you...you...Swordworlder! <g>

You know, I enjoyed rereading LOM last weekend and Paul says this set
will be better...OH BOY!  I'm hoping to run a campaign around those
books.

Eris,

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:13:42 -0700
From: Keith Johnson <kejohnson@2xtreme.net>
Subject: Re: Foundation of the Traveller News Service

After reading:

>According to the old TNS column in JTAS, the TNS is a service provided by 
>the TAS.

and

>According to one source I remember reading (can't recall where, possibly 
>one of the GT books, or maybe M0) TNS originally started out as a forum for 
>members of TAS to write about their experiences while traveling errr... 
>Travelling.  Since the Travellers were often the first to get back with the 
>news (and often made the news to begin with), the service became popular 
>with non-TAS readers.  Eventually it evolved into a dedicated news service, 
>although it still occasionally takes amateur articles from TAS members.


I found this:

Milieu 0, page 39, The Traveller's Aid Society (TAS).

<snip>
A few words from Ve Nu Lant, TAS Chief Executive Officer, 145-0008
"In those early years of expansion, many people just packed a bag and
headed off into space, hitching rides on scouts, traders and even warships.
 It didn't take long for an informal self-help network on the 'net to start
up, passing Traveller's tips, places to go, places to avoid, what to eat,
and what not to.  So one summer, I collected the stories coming back, and
put together the first Crowded Space guides.  They were instant hits, but
many people needed more practical help.  So with a few friends, I set up
the Travellers' Aid Society.  We started off with 'net lectures, devised a
simple color code for planet safety, and in Year -16, we opened up our
first planetary office.  It was a great hit, helping people to get
oriented, providing a meeting place and information exchange, and even a
few beds for the night.  The rest, as they say, is history."
</snip>



I think this pretty much answers my question.  Thanks for the responses!


_____________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    kejohnson@2xtreme.net
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com
             http://www.sjgames.com/
  IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
"I don't practice what I preach, because I'm not the kind
of person I'm preaching to." - J.R. "Bob" Dobbs in Newsweek
_____________________________________________________________ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:36:15 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Lost Keith Supplements "refund"

Eris reddoch wrote:
> 

> You know, I enjoyed rereading LOM last weekend and Paul says this set
> will be better...OH BOY!  I'm hoping to run a campaign around those
> books.


What 'hoping'??? My character is on the front page of all the newspapers
as the 'Brave Captain who fought off the pirates...' You mean it's gonna
get _worse_???

... actually it was the Space Patrol who fought off the pirates...mostly
by making our ship into swiss cheese...Eris has this Accelerated Massive
Debt plan for us, obviously.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:22:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: BITS question

In mail you write:

> While poking around on the SIL Ethnologue site, I came across the following
> entry:
>
> "SHELTA (THE CANT, CANT, IRISH TRAVELER CANT, SHELDRU) [STH] 6,000 in
> Ireland; 50,000 in USA; 30,000 in the United Kingdom (1990 I. Hancock);
> 86,000 in all countries. Indo-European, Celtic, Insular, Goidelic. The
> secret language, or cryptolect, of Travellers in the British Isles. Based
> largely on Irish. Not Gypsies. Survey needed."
>
> Needless to say, I was shocked! You BITS folks didn't mention that you had a
> secret Traveller language... and shouldn't that be Vilani-Indo-European?

Alas, *those* "Travellers" are best known as con men.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:33:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: I'm back....

In mail you write:

> Going without email for two weeks was a harrowing experience.  My ISP
> decided to royally piss me off by first fouling up a simple upgrade,
> causing a week's outage, then by failing to inform me that they weren't
> going to support my software, modem or OS any more.  Good-bye, Hooked!

They also lost no time in making your account non-existent. I got
several bounces, one the day after a message *from* you.

> ObTrav: The party discovers that a crucial component of their ships was
> made by a long-defunct manufacturer, and nobody provides support for this
> model.  They learn this, of course, *after* it fails.

And then comes the fun of digging around in the local junkyard
equivalent hoping to find a usable component, or an assembly that can
be substituted for the one containing the bad component.

I can think of three basic types of "junkyard". All contain ships or
portions of ships that were considered not worth fixing, or that people
couldn't afford to fix, and weren't considered worth buying as "fixer
uppers by "optimists" wanting to get into business as traders.

1. On a planet with an atmosphere, near the downport. These ships will
   suffer from damage from weathering. And depending on how well
   maintained the junkyard is, there may be danger of ships or portions
   thereof collapsing or falling over.

2. On an airless planet, near the downport. These won't be weathered,
   though vaccuum damage (especially vacuum welding) is likely. In any
   case crawling around in airless hulks that have been partially
   stripped by folks in a hurry isn't exactly safe.

3. At a highport or in an asteroid belt. The ships will be parked in an
   orbital slot some distance from the station. They'll be in condition
   similar to the yard on an airless planet. Less danger of things
   falling on you, but zero-g has its own hazards.

Besides the scenario where the players are trying to repair their ship,
you can also have players without a ship trying to find one. Maybe
they've lost their ship. Maybe this is a new campaign and a devious GM
has "graciously" allowed them to try to cobble something together. Of
course maintenance costs will be higher for a patch work of stuff
that's several TLs old. 

On the bright side, most pirates aren't going to *want* a ship like that.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:57:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FW: Honor Harrington Books

In mail you write:

> In the back of one of the Honor Harrington books there was a table giving
> average masses for each type of warship, given this it should be possible to
> work out approximate Traveller displacements, now all I need are FFS rules
> for the star drives, the impeller wedges and the vaguries of the weapon and
> defensive systems in this universe.

*Don't* trust Weber on ship masses!

I once sat down with the figures for one of the larger ships, where
he'd given the length, mass, and beam. Assuming an average density near
that of water, the ship came out to be only 5 meters thick. 

Weber has a the same problem that the producer (JMS) of Babylon 5 had.
A simple calculation shows that the *air* in Babylon 5 weighs more than
the mass given for the station. 

In both cases, "million" should be *billion*. 

If trying to estimate masses based on a smaller object, remember that
mass goes up as the *cube* of the linear dimensions. So an object 10
times bigger weighs 1000 times as much. 


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:30:54 +0100
From: Matt Clonfero <Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: tank:antitank arms race

Peter H. Brenton wrote:

>Short answer: the armor values and penetration values (or equivalent in
>your combat system of choice) are intended to account for this.  Depending
>on the system, it is generally not impossible for a TL9 weapon to penetrate
>TL11 armor, only very difficult.

IIRC one of the early systems for vehicle combat (presented in White
Dwarf many moons ago) gave a DM based on the TL difference of the two
vehicles.

[snip]

>Your own question provides an example:  A TL9 MBT gun will be a discarding
>sabot propelled chemically (perhaps Electrotherochemically) of about 120mm
>diameter with a finned dart travelling Very Fast to use Kinetic Energy to
>penetrate a target armor.  The TL11 armored vehicle wil probably have some
>form of active defense system that is designed to break the penetrator
>longitudinally to prevent it's greatest strength from coming to bear; the
>focus of a heavy projectile travelling at speed on a small cross sectional
>area.

Indeed, late TL9 active defence systems (Russian Kontact-5 ERA, for
example) do just that.
 
[snip]

>Incidentially, the Jagdpanzer ("Hunting Tiger") VI with its 12.8 cm main
>gun could, in tests, penetrate 148mm of 30 degree sloped hard steel at 2000
>meters according to one source.  Definitely enough to penetrate the average
>Bradley CFV, but the Abrams?  I did not quickly find armor comparisons
>among different AFVs on the Web, maybe someone else can say.  It would make
>a good comparison of production vehicles from TL5(?) and TL8 (M1A1 = 1980).

Let's see that Hunting Tiger shoot a moving target while moving itself -
something that a modern MBT can do without excess bother.

Aetherem Vincere
Matt
- -- 
Matt Clonfero: Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk    | To err is human, To forgive
My employer and I have a deal - I don't speak | is not Air Force Policy.
for them, and they don't speak for me.        |   -- Anon, ETPS.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:26:06 +0100
From: Matt Clonfero <Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: tank:antitank arms race

Ian Ferguson wrote:
>I have a question regarding the progression of AFV armour and antitank
>weapons: just how tough is it for a TL 9 gun to destroy an AFV built to TL
>10? TL 11?  When does it become essentially impossible to knock out an AFV?
> Under normal circumstances, I would expect that a WWII German "Hunting
>Tiger" with 120 mm gun has little or no chance of killing an US Abrams
>tank.  Opinions?

Well, let's take the 88mm as the standard At gun for 1945. This weapon
won't even scare a modern MBT - even at fairly close range. However,
it'll go clean through the armour of lesser modern fighting vehicles
(like a Bradley or Warrior). but 1945-1999 is more than one TL jump -
IIRC it's TL5 guns versus TL8 vehicles.

Looking at a 1970s tank (TL7) versus a 1990s tank (TL8) - well, you can
kill the more modern tank with the older one - but something special
would need to be happening before you got the chance. It's the
difference between an M60 and M1A1 tank, for example.

Aetherem Vincere
Matt
- -- 
Matt Clonfero: Matt-C@aetherem.demon.co.uk    | To err is human, To forgive
My employer and I have a deal - I don't speak | is not Air Force Policy.
for them, and they don't speak for me.        |   -- Anon, ETPS.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:52:19 -0500
From: "John Majer" <jsmage@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1047

> As I'm also sending this message to the TML I should warn you that it is a
> TNE game and Virus will be making a special guest appearance along with
Cher
> and Gillian Anderson.

only if I can scream "SCULLY!!!" at regular intervals.

- -J.S.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:04:46 -0500
From: "John Majer" <jsmage@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1048

> > A game session would be half an hour of
> > getting somewhere, and hour of plot, and four hours of interparty
relations
> > along with (in character, mind you, which left it really odd) ethical
> > discourse about the moral, social and metaphysical implactions of their
past
> > or intended actions.
>
> Gee, sounds like my old AD&D group, and they never were LARPers. I still
> remember the player of the Dwarven Mage yelling (in Character) at the
brash
> fighter, saying "If you cut off the prisoners hands, I'll conjure up every
> elemental in range to smash your little armored head in!", in the middle
of
> the supermarket parking lot. Conversation at Denny's always turned a head.
> ;)

And therefore the reason we never played in public.  My all time favorite is
a tie between a Spiri and a Baulderian discussing the nature of RC
intervention, or the one which began (too much background to make it really
funny) "But Professor, I thought you said we weren't supposed to help
Virus?"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:27:02 -0700
From: "Wayne" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: New Picture

> I finally finished my water landing pic. The one I posted earlier was a
... well
> not finished... :)
> any way  here is the link if any one is interested.... I am also finishing
up a
> series of Starport pics, If I can just find time to finish my 400 ton
trader....
> sigh.  ;)

I like it.
Made me think of any anchorage in the Navy. Wpn. Techs working on the gun,
Deck Apes painting the hull, and Command and the remaining crew going for a
dip in the sea,

Wayne Ewart 0502 C588858 C N kk++ hi+ va++ dr+ so- zh+ da++ 734

CT/HG Templar Wanna-be

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:47:26 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: [none]

>> From: Keith Johnson
>> Heck, is the TNS related to the Traveller's Aid Society, and when was
TAS
>> founded?  TAS is referenced my copy of Milieu 0, but there are no dates
>> involved.

>According to the old TNS column in JTAS, the TNS is a service provided by
>the TAS.

>I'm not aware of any dates if they're not in Milieu 0.

>If the TAS was around in the early days of the Imperium, I guess we could
>say the TNS was around then too, although that doesn't necessarily follow.

>Alan Bradley
>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

Dates may be wrong, as this is done from memory.

The Travellers Aid Society was formed around 800. Before that , there was
the Octigon Society , which collapsed due to financial mismanagement.Millue
0 actually had TAS as an concern, which broke previous cannon.

(I Think this is in the library data from MT, or from PBH but cant be
sure).

One of the things I like about Far Trader is a good explanantion of the
TAS, sort of NRMA (australian auto club) in space, where insurance pays the
bills and allows for service like free roadcare, accomidation data and
discouts for members. It also (IMHO) explains the Free TAS memberships
(advertising...Today TAS awards membership to that great hero BLAH)

Darryl


Visit our Web Site : http://www.ParraCity.nsw.gov.au

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:06:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1048

On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, John Majer wrote:

> > Gee, sounds like my old AD&D group, and they never were LARPers. I still
> > remember the player of the Dwarven Mage yelling (in Character) at the
> brash
> > fighter, saying "If you cut off the prisoners hands, I'll conjure up every
> > elemental in range to smash your little armored head in!", in the middle
> of
> > the supermarket parking lot. Conversation at Denny's always turned a head.
> > ;)
> 
> And therefore the reason we never played in public.  My all time favorite is
> a tie between a Spiri and a Baulderian discussing the nature of RC
> intervention, or the one which began (too much background to make it really
> funny) "But Professor, I thought you said we weren't supposed to help
> Virus?"
> 
I think the worst Denny's situation was when Rich Starnes was declaiming
to me (this was Arduin, where paladins could be any alignment so long as
they matched their god and did everything to serve their god) as to
exactly how good a paladin of Lucifer he was going to be and all the
wonderful things he was going to do for his master.

The little old ladies a table or two away did NOT understand that this was
a game.  (It was my campaign, where the Luciferian Gnostics were a potent
political force to be reckoned with...)

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:10:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joseph Coles <jcoles@nac.net>
Subject: Re: streamlining

>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:43:34 +1000
>From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>
>Subject: Re: streamlining
>
>- ----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk>
>To: <traveller@mpgn.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 9:39 PM
>Subject: re: streamlining
>
>
>> 
>> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> > Also, at 20 mph weather, such as storms, moves a *lot* faster than your
>> > ship can dodge. Since weather is a chaotic system, the Imperium won't
>> > be able to predict it any better than we can. So you could easily start
>> > a descent (or a takeoff) and a couple of hours later find yourself in
>> > the path of a squall line that was "supposed" to be nowhere near you.
>> > Or trying to dodge a jetstream.
>> 
>> Anthony Jacson wrote:
>> >We can predict weather an hour ahead plenty accurately.
>> 
>> 
>> You can't have spent any time in England then!
>> 
>
>Or Melbourne, Australia :^)
>
>- -- The Roc
>
or New England  (famous Yankee saying: "if you don;t like the weather, wait
15 minutes) 

OT: can "weather contol" actually be a possibility?  Or. perhaps more
accurately, is "weather control" more of a long term "terra-forming" type
thing?  In other words, more like "increase rain and reduce drought" rather
than "make day 245 clear and sunny with a temperature in the mid 70's in a
particular city"?  



- ---------------
Joseph Coles
jcoles@nac.net
Proprietor - Joe's Bar and Grill
**Fine Gaming since 1978**

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:00:21 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: New Picture

VERY nice Mike!!!

Jesse



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Mike
> Linsenmayer
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 8:14 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: New Picture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey again... The lurker posts once more.
> 
> I finally finished my water landing pic. The one I posted earlier 
> was a ... well
> not finished... :)
> any way  here is the link if any one is interested.... I am also 
> finishing up a
> series of Starport pics, If I can just find time to finish my 400 
> ton trader....
> sigh.  ;)
> 
http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/art/picture-c.htm

Thanks All

Keep on Travellen
Mike Linsenmayer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:57:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: [none]

>In a message dated 8/30/99 10:13:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, aramis@gci.net
>writes:
>>
>> THey were... Cliff, Leroy and Phil were gearheads, jerks, and
>> rules-uber-alles flame-mongers.  Leroy at least had some good ideas, if you
>> could get pas t the personaltiy he presented.
>
>That must be another "Phil" - I hope!
>
>From before my time on the list, I assume.
>
>Phil Kitching

Oh, definitely.... There were several "Phils" at the time, even. But the
others made certain to include last names (Like Phil McGreggor of Space
Opera and Starplay). No, Mr, K., you are NOTHIN' like the phil of whom I
typed.

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1049
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